Ozzy Osbourne and Billy Morrison — the longtime rhythm guitarist in Billy Idol‘s band and former bassist for THE CULT — have released the latest episode of their new Internet TV show, “The Madhouse Chronicles”. During the chat, the legendary BLACK SABBATH singer reflected on the making of the band’s final album, “13”. Released in 2013, it was SABBATH‘s first LP in 35 years to feature Osbourne, guitarist Tony Iommi and bassist Geezer Butler. Asked how “13” came about, he responded: “(Producer) Rick Rubin, I had met him a long time ago, before he did the album. And he would say, ‘Listen, if you ever get back together again, you’ve gotta let me produce the album.’ … And when we reformed to do that (1997) tour, we recorded the live album, (1998’s) ‘Reunion’. He actually walks into the studio and he goes — we’d had two bonus tracks that were included on the album — he says, ‘I like that track, but I don’t like that track,’ and fucking walked out . And then, as time went on, (Ozzy‘s wife and manager) Sharon goes to me, ‘Rick Rubin wants you to do an album with him.'”

Reflecting on how “13” came out, Ozzy said: “The only criticism I have about the album — not criticism; the thing we all found hard to do, none of us had that much input. So it was kind of like going straight back to the beginning when we had (early SABBATH producer) Rodger Bain and we didn’t know about double tracking and all that. If you have a producer, you don’t produce it yourself. Because Tony would basically produce all the albums after a certain time. He must have had to swallow his pride and all that.”

He continued: “One of the tracks was a fucking jam. They would just say, ‘Just fucking play and get warmed up before.’ And it was recorded. And it ended up on the fucking album.”

Addressing original SABBATH drummer Bill Ward‘s absence from “13”, Ozzy said: “I can’t remember why Bill didn’t do it. I’ve gotta be truthful. It wasn’t really BLACK SABBATH because Bill wasn’t there. I mean, if you had Ginger Baker playing with THE BEATLES, it wouldn’t be THE BEATLES.”

Ozzy also talked about the final show of SABBATH‘s “The End” tour, which took place in February 2017 in the band’s original hometown of Birmingham, England. Asked if he was glad it was done at that moment, Osbourne said: “Yeah, but I was sad that Bill wasn’t there. I mean, I mean, Tommy (Clufetos), my drummer for my solo band, did a great job (stepping in for Bill), but he ain’t Bill Ward.”

Pressed about whether he is happy with the arc of the legend of BLACK SABBATH, Ozzy said: “No. Because it wasn’t BLACK SABBATH that finished it. It’s unfinished. If they wanted to do one more gig with Bill, I would jump at the chance. Do you know what would be cool? If we went to a club or something unannounced and we just got up and did it. We started up in a club.”