Ensiferum- Interview met Sami Hinkka (bass, vocals)
Sami Hinkka: “The four of us, Markus, Pete, me and Janne, we are together since 2005. A really good thing about ‘Winter Storm’ was that we talked a lot when we were composing. Most of the time we were jamming, but sometimes we spent hours in the rehearsal room just talking and I think that is also really healthy that the band and the band members have this relationship of trust and togetherness.”
Het is altijd fijn wanneer bands die je al jaren kent plots op de proppen komen met een album dat inslaat als een bom. Laat dat nu net het geval zijn met Ensiferum’s negende studioalbum ‘Winter Storm’ dat ons telkens aanspoort om nog een keer meer te beluisteren. Dit is strijdvaardige pagan/folk metal met ballen en veel gevoel voor knappe melodieën! De band was duidelijk in grote vorm toen ze besloten om een erg episch, welhaast filmisch album te maken dat een verhaal van bassist Sami Hinkka als leidraad genomen heeft. Met hem hadden we dan ook een lang en hartelijk gesprek over de opvolger van ‘Thalassic’ uit 2020.
Vera Matthijssens Ι 7 november 2024
This new album ‘Winter Storm’ is initially created by Markus Toivonen during the pandemic and he worked differently. Can you tell how he got into the use of computers and so?
In a way Markus was kind of forced (chuckles), to get software and using the computer while composing. All the previous albums, we had sessions. Sometimes just two of us, sometimes just with me, then Markus and Petri. We tried different chords and different harmonies, just checking stuff together and it takes hours and hours. It takes a long time. Now that I had to take a day job when covid-19 started, he had to find another way to do it. I guess that is one reason, I am sure he had other ambitions also, because he finally tried stuff at home properly. I mean, before he only recorded stuff on an old school tracker or whatever. This saves so much time from rehearsal room. Of course when we start rehearsals we come together as we always do, when someone brings in a new idea we could play it differently. It was quite fast that we already noticed that we were saving a lot of time with the raw material and he owned almost all the ideas for the best possible. That is always the goal for every melody and for every riff, every song is the best version of its own. So that really saved a lot of time. I am sure that if he did it the old school way – as he always did – and we had to find time now and then to do this stuff together, and then working as a band for arrangements, I dare to say that the album would not be ready yet. Everything was so much slowed down during the pandemic. Yeah it was time for him to take a leap into modern times.
The album should be even more epic and gloomy than the other ones… is that also the case in your mind?
Absolutely. Every album reflects the few years in our lives, usually the years before the album is released and if you check what happened in the last four years in the world, it was not the most happiest time of anyone’s life. We are all individuals and every life is different, but for anyone who was working in music business or entertainment or art, these were hard times and you can really hear that on the album in my opinion. It was really something that had to get out of our system and luckily we are already working on the next album and it is different. Hopefully.
At the time of working on ‘Winter Storm’, you were uncertain about the future of course, because nobody knew when it would clear out or something like that…
Exactly. It is very different now. It was only a small couple of years, but when you are in the middle of it, all this shit and you get all that news and lockdowns and we had like a full schedule for years ahead and it was about to be relieved while suddenly it was like a bulldozer, empty… It was like: we don’t know when the next show will be, while we just released an album that was very successful and we were ready for the next trek around the world. It was a really big kick in the balls, so to say. It really sucked at that point.
But eventually you could do two world tours, I found out…
Yes we did. We did some touring in Europe, but going to North America was four or five years ago, so… things are much better now, but it is absolutely not the same as it was. In 2019 it was very different and of course we cannot go back in time. We just can hope things will get better. We have a lot of plans now for touring with ‘Winter Storm’. Now we have shows in Finland, the Pagan Fest tour next year in Europe. I can’t say too much, sorry, but 2025 will be very busy and we have already plans for the year after that. So it sounds familiar and hopefully after that we can start recording for the next album, so that the gap between the two albums will not be this long ever again, because four years is too much.
We are not used to that from Ensiferum of course…
We need to be on the road (laughs). That’s how I always felt. We are much more a live band. Interaction with the crazy fans is important.
You have written a fantasy concept story and the lyrics are based upon that. What can you tell about that? I guess you have written that already?
No, I have most of it in my head. My plan was actually not to start properly writing in years. When things get better in a year and I can quit my day job again, and when I have time, I will write the book, but here we are, so I guess I have to start writing a bit earlier. I am planning to try writing it on the tours. Early in the morning when people are still sleeping away yesterday’s hangover, I’ll get up and start writing. This is just a plan, let us see if it works, because it is a delicate thing in my opinion when you are in a kind of creative mood. It is not cool to be disturbed all the time and living in a tour bus is living with many people. It is not the best place to be creative for hours and hours. I remember I saw Heri from Týr on some tour – actually on a couple of tours – and he was really composing on the tour. He had like headphones on and a laptop. He recorded things but it is so insane that you can focus like that when you have a bunch of assholes running naked or really drunk, singing some shit or whatever, he was just focused and writing music. So he could. It is possible.
Yes but you have to have a special character I think…
Yeah and not easily distracted by everything around you.
You have also written the music for one song, ‘Fatherland’ and I think there is something to tell about it…
The way we compose means that everyone can bring ideas. That is how we work. We can add one melody, a riff or whatever and then we start arranging and combining stuff. So I don’t want to say that I composed it, because I brought a few ideas and then we compose and arrange and finalize together, but of course most of the raw material for that song comes from me. I cannot claim the credit, because we work together and everything is like that. I think we nailed this song is a very good way and it might end up in our set list for a long time, but then again, it is up to the fans. If people don’t take it as their own, or they cannot relate to that, then it is not a good live song, we will see when the album is out and we are also playing that live. But the lyrics they tell about this small tribe that live in this fantasy world of the book, who were fighting for their life.
And the rest is up to imagination?
Well, the book is a long one, about many generations long and the album is just a small fraction of that, a part of a big story, so there is not much to tell about the new album. In a way it just presents a couple of actions, a couple of characters and two events that happen. We are not exactly telling much about the plot…
Are you planning to make more albums about the same concept?
I don’t think so. At least I hope not, because for this album, the music, the mood fits the book, but the raw material for the next album, the raw material that we have, it is not as cinematic as ‘Winter Storm’, so I don’t see that it would work again, unless we really start composing new music for this part of the story. Then it will work again, otherwise Ensiferum and this book universe will never meet again. Let us see, I won’t say never again, but that’s not the plan.
Indeed, when using the lyrics of the book, your composing has to be structural, in function of the story. That is totally different from a band just rocking…
Exactly. I always take the reference from one of my old favourite bands Nightwish, because Tuomas is a fantastic composer, but he has a complete opposite method. He has a story in his head and he starts to compose. And for Ensiferum it is like there is some raw music, and then you start adding lyrics and then they try to build it together. It is a very different way to create and I don’t see Ensiferum changing that method in the future. It really depends on what kind of musicians there are in the band. Then everybody would need to start thinking differently. I think it is a big decision, a big change of mentality. Ensiferum has always been a band about ‘we write music that feels good and that we like and we are proud of’. So that would be a very different mentality. Composing a story is like composing a musical. It could work, but at the moment it feels too strange.
Since the previous album ‘Thalassic’, the new clean singer who is also the keyboard player, Pekka Montin, is more in the spotlights. So it seems he is doing it well…
Yes, he joined Ensiferum during the making of the previous album ‘Thalassic’, but it was almost composed, almost finalized. We were about to hit the studio. So there was not that much time anymore to work on the vocal arrangements. We did of course, because we were also very happy that this guy could do that high and low metal stuff. You can really hear that on ‘Thalassic’. We already then decided that for the next album, ‘Winter Storm’, we would try different styles. We would check much more in each song where Pekka can use all his different styles. He is not just a power metal singer, he always says that he even doesn’t identifies himself as power metal singer, but he can do it very well. He has been singing in that Manowar cover band when he was younger, but his ambitions are also other styles. So we already decided back then ‘let us try to broaden the horizon a bit’ and try different things and he did well. I still feel that there is a lot of stuff that he can do that we need to explore in the future. As a composer it is fantastic to have a world class singer in the band. Then you know – no matter what you compose – this guy can deliver it and he can actually even come up with ideas that are much better than the original ideas. So, as a composer it is fantastic to have this freedom, that you are surrounded by much better musicians than you are (chuckles).
Ensiferum has gone through different eras with success…
Yeah there have been some line-up changes, but for some good reasons. For the first two albums Ensiferum did like two shows in Finland. The guys weren’t trying to make it and at that time, end of the nineties and early two thousands, there were shit loads of metal bands coming from Finland and all around the world. So it was a very different time and when the guys did the first tour, in 2004, it was an overally, completely different kind of engagement to hop on a bus and be away from home for one month. You are stuck in the bus with people, some of them being drunk for 24/7 and that is not something for everyone. You can laugh and make music, you can be the best musician ever, but the touring conditions are very different and playing in a sterile environment or playing in your ma’s basement. It is good that people acknowledge that, I am not talking for Ensiferum here, but those kind of people are holding back the rest of the band. If they want to tour, you have to let them go. It can be the deadweight. When the ‘Iron’ album came out, Jari had already visions for Wintersun and he was not into touring. He said he wanted to focus on Wintersun and making an album and for Markus, who is the founder and heart & soul of the band, he was like: ‘no way’. He wanted the band to tour. He wanted to play live. Petri was playing in Norther at that time and we were sharing the same rehearsal room. I think Amorphis was also there, but I was not in the band yet. Petri was an obvious choice, he was in for a tour and few months later I joined, because stuff happened. It might be tricky if you want to go on tour and see the reality of that. You have to do this month after month, year after year, so once again, some people have different goals and ambitions in life and the line up changes were mandatory. Then the four of us, Markus, Pete, me and Janne, we are together since 2005 and we had few keyboard players changing and now Pekka has been around for four years. It is crazy to think about him as a new guy, he is there for two albums already. At the moment our line up is ace. Fantastic! We are having fun. We are not 18 anymore, so we have all been around, we know how it is, a harsh reality and we are in a really good position.
I have written it down: ‘the spirit is high again in the band’
Yes, absolutely! It is sad sometimes to read about several big bands who might not even talk to each other. They are together just to pay their bills. We may not call every day with the members, but we consider ourselves really as friends. The four of us meet each other for twenty years and we spend more time with each other than with any other friends or families. So we really like the people doing this. Like you said, the band is in a good position and a really good thing about ‘Winter Storm’ was that we talked a lot when we were composing. Most of the time we were jamming, but sometimes we spent hours in the rehearsal room just talking and I think that is also really healthy that the band and the band members have this relationship of trust and togetherness. Like I said, we spent much more time with the band than with anyone else and it needs to be working, you have to like the people, otherwise it is a waste of time, you never get that time back. So the time needs to be worth it.
We have a few guests on the album. First of all Madeleine from Eleine is singing ‘Scars In My Heart’. What can you tell about that?
I remember when Markus sent the provisional rough idea, maybe just the verse and the melody and immediately I called back to him and said: ‘this is like the most beautiful stuff you ever composed’ and it was easy to put together. I think it is the most straight forward song on the album, but the problem was always there, everybody knew it: ‘how the fuck are we going to do the vocals?’ It is a ballad. Then I wrote some lines of the lyrics. I had some ideas to combine it with a beautiful sad thing happening in the story, so we connected them. I wrote a few lines and then we did demos with Pekka. We did a version with traditional schlager almost. We did a version with Pete’s vocals, that was extremely brutal, but we all knew what the best version of the song could be. I think it was the drummer Janne who had listened to the song and said: ‘this song needs a female singer, end of story’ and we all agreed. We were talking about different options. We got many good singers in the metal scene and also in the pop scene. For a ballad you don’t need a metal voice per se, but no one felt right in a way. There was a tour coming with Pain and Eleine and Fleshgod Apocalypse. After one or two nights – we all went to see other bands’ gigs – everyone in the band was like ‘Did you hear Eleine? The singer is fuckin’ good’ and everybody agreed. After some time we talked to Madeleine and said ‘hey we have an idea, would you mind singing one song’. We gave her the demo with Pekka’s voice and she did like a second demo with the music in the background and her cell phone and it already sounded magical. Then she flew to Helsinki, did her magic and the rest is history. What I always have to mention about this song. Production-wise all the album is very grandiose, very epic with a lot of big choirs and vocal harmonies and even Pete’s harsh vocals have doubled low rolls on them. This song, ‘Scars In My Heart’, has only one track of vocals to emphasize the loneliness. It is just one lady – and she is a widow – with her thoughts, her sadness and loneliness. It might be a small detail, but it makes this song stand out. It is really naked vocal lines. That also proves what a good singer Madeleine is. There’s no need to double it or harmonies and it still sounds good.
I enjoyed the video clips so much, even the lyric video is so good, the one for ‘Long Cold Winter Of Sorrow And Strife’. Who did the narration? It reminded me of Manowar and Christopher Lee…
It is me on the album, but I did some magic. I was recording stuff at home, the spoken parts. I wrote the stuff and I knew what it is referring to. So I made it myself and then I asked the guys ‘would this work?’. That is actually the intro of the song ‘The Howl’ that narrative and it is actually my demo for this song. I think everything there used is just the demo that I made. We decided to leave it that way and I am really happy with it. It might just be a demo, but if you know what you are talking about, then you can get into the mood of what you are telling. Yes I did some magic with my voice. It doesn’t sound like me. There is a little bit English accent in it, but we are finished. I will blame it on AI (laughs).
Don’t use it, art should not be artificial…
I agree. I welcome all the newest inventions of technology and I am not afraid of AI stealing my job. Absolutely not. We humans create something and I think every generation wants something that you can relate to, they want something they get kicks out of. If you get kicks out of the AI creator, good for you. There is no ‘right or wrong’ interpretation for art, but I think there will be always demand for art created by human beings. Let’s see where it goes, I am curious to see.
Talking about already writing the next album… so it will be completely different, not a concept album…
At least at the moment the raw material feels that way. It is quite different. It is not as cinematic, but let us see. It is still on the raw level. A bunch of riffs, a bunch of melodies we share together to find out what will work together. But everything is still very open. We might destroy everything and start from scratch or change a lot, but at the moment the feeling is quite different.
What can you tell about the video for ‘Winter Storm Vigilantes’?
It is actually the first time ever that I like making music videos. I always hate it, for several reasons. First of all we are not Metallica and will not have big budgets and even more is that metal videos are usually very lame. There’s not that many bands that have a good idea for the videos. It is so often – especially in our genre – going into the woods and headbang and play some riffs. It is done so many times for decades, so this time we really wanted to push it a little bit to give it direction, because the whole album is based on a book. We wanted it to have more cinematic look. We are going to have four actual videos and the lyric video and the story will continue if you actually watch them in a row, then they will create a short movie. I have seen two now and the third and the fourth are now in production. The band stuff is already shot and I did the script. I sent them to this guy Martin, who is making all the videos. He is very ambitious. He says that every video needs to be better than the one before, but somehow at some point when I said ‘this and this and this’, he said ‘we don’t have the budget of ‘The Lord of the Rings’ movie. I know, but he sent me an email recently and for video three and four he has found the actors and he solved some technical issues. He was full of hope, so I think the videos are going to be awesome. I can’t wait to see them.
Who did the cover art?
The cover art was done by Gyula Havancsak again. It is a picture from the song ‘Victorious’. The castaway and the spirit wolf are fighting against Winter Storm Vigilantes. Who will win? Well, that is told in the book…
In 2025 Ensiferum will celebrate its 30th anniversary. Are you going to do something special?
We have some special plans for 2025 and 2026, but more about those later.
