Swallow The Sun – interview met Juha Raïvïo (guitars)
Juha Raïvïo: “I am very happy that this new album shines, it has a different kind of power, not this destructing power.“
We followed and admired Finnish doom/death metal band Swallow The Sun from the very beginning and always talked to composer/guitarist Juha Raïvïo with every release. Unfortunately he went through hard times since 2016 in his personal life. We talked to other members for the next albums, but now we are very glad that Juha is willing to talk again, now that ‘Shining’ appears to be a melancholic yet brighter album. That is a great relief!
Vera Matthijssens Ι 1 november 2024
First we go back to the former album ‘Moonflower’. I know you have had hard times since 2016 with your beloved love, but then the pandemic hit. Was it something you got along with pretty good – because I know that you like to be alone and in nature – or was it also a disaster for you?
Oh it has been very, very hard for sure. You can hear it on the ‘Moonflowers’ album. It had lots to do with the lockdown also with the covid-19 stuff. It had lots to do with that thing also, because ‘When A Shadow Is Forced Into The Light’ in 2019, that was a beautiful album. It was totally made from love and actually that time I felt a lot of courage, I felt much better doing that album and getting that thing out there and then I was getting a little bit better from out of this thing of what I felt, but then the lockdown came and it totally locked me in here in the forest and that destroyed so much, so that everything went back to the starting point and even worse from there. That is why I hate the ‘Moonflowers’ album, because of that, but at the same time I love it, because it is so honest and it is so truthful, that album, like always our music is very truthful and super honest. I cannot write any other kind of music – at least for this band – and so that was why I hated that album and I still do hate it. I cannot listen to that album.
And that is why you did not want to talk about it at that time, I truly understand…
I haven’t been doing that much interviews during last eight years, so only now I am starting to do interviews again. Especially with ‘Moonflowers’ I did not want to talk about it, because it was all super hard, because of this lockdowns and everything. It really pushed me back, it felt like a prison here in the forest and everything. I love the place where I live, but it is so full of memories and everything. Well, luckily I am living in a forest, so there were no regulations here, especially here in Sweden. I could just walk around and do things and still I could leave this area. It was super hard, that is why ‘Moonflowers’ is like it is. With the new album I hoped that a little bit inside my heart after the ‘Moonflowers’ album and after the gigs and the tours we did with ‘Moonflowers’ and then we did the book – which is super hard – it goes very deep into everything. So after that, I was like ‘okay, this is so dark, black and hard’ that I said to myself a little bit at that point before there was any new music. ‘Juha, if you do new music maybe you can have a little bit more mercy for your heart with the new one’. I can never know how the music comes out. It comes out as it comes out, so that is why a lot of this new ‘Shining’ album I don’t hate it at all, because it has this kind of aura and it is totally different from ‘Moonflowers’. That is why it is also called ‘Shining’, because it really feels like it shines, this album. It shines dark also, this album, but there is a different kind of aura in this one.
You should say it is an unexpected title for Swallow The Sun, but it shines in the music. It is still the summit of melancholy, but yet there is a kind of beauty and brightness in it that will do you well after all these years…
I am really happy that you can feel that too, because it is also an album from myself. I cannot write music for other people, but I am very happy if it resonates with other people also. I really wanted to feel that right away when the music started to come out, I could feel that ‘okay, this is clearly quite different from ‘Moonflowers’ and I was very, very happy about that, because that was a small wish somewhere in the back of my mind, that maybe that the new music would not be that hard to write and to record and to tour the next couple of years. Every gig when you go to the stage and you start to stab yourself into the heart with a knife when you are on stage singing all these songs, that is hard and maybe the album after that will be total funeral doom, you never know, but this album is powerful and shiny. I think it is very healthy at this point, at least for myself. More healthy. This new album is very far from anything the last ten years, but compared to ‘Moonflowers’ it is totally different. There is a different darkness in it. In a song it says that it is shining dark also, shining dark is a good explanation of the whole album I think.
Most of the songs are also a bit shorter…
It surprisingly came like this. I was surprised, because we can do a 35 minute long song or clearly we can do 3 minute and I am very happy about that thing too. This time there are longer songs too, but it is quite compact songs in a way.
From the third track you made ‘MelancHoly’, that is a good word play to see it that way, because that means a lot in our lives and sometimes we are not aware of it I think…
In the lyrics of this song I talk a little bit about this album too, what I am writing in the lyrics and also what I realized about myself, also after ‘Moonflowers’, that the whole melancholy can so easy become something that you worship, something that is your god. It is almost like a religion and I was very deep into that with the music, a little bit in an unhealthy way even. So in that light, also ‘MelancHoly’ it is like a religion to you at some point. Like Aleah said and she even wrote that text that is in the Trees Of Eternity album, where Aleah said that she does not write the music to kind of wallow or bathe into the darkness and in the sadness and everything, like for the sake of it. She wants to write it out of herself and bring it out away from her system and so she is not like an artist who wants to be wallowing there in the darkness, because that is not her, how she writes the music and I felt that I am going into that area that the more painful and the more darker it is, that’s what I have to do and that’s what I need to do, almost like following some rules of religion or something like that.
A voice in your head… I think that is depression, not melancholy anymore…
It is very easy to flirt with that darkness and I think many bands or artists in the same kind of music, they kind of fall in love basically with the darkness in their own way. You can hear it in our music and I think you can still hear it in the new album. I think the darkness is always going to be a huge part – and the sadness and the melancholy – in our music, but I really wanted to kind of like hoping and I really understand that for myself too, that it is a dangerous path in many ways for your physical health and your mental health and everything, so I wanted to write about that and bring it out from the darkness and explain it to myself also, that I must be careful with it, with the darkness turning into your religion and your god and that was what Aleah was all against. She said that she was not that kind of artist, like a lot of bands or artists are, they kind of want to wallow in that thing for the sake of it. So that is a lot about this new album also, it is a shining dark work. There is a kind of power, more healthy power in it and not a destroying power maybe.
That is a relief to me, because I was worried about you…
Yes, the next album might be… who knows, maybe a funeral doom album, you never knows, but I don’t want to think about it until it happens. The music comes out as it comes out, so I have no idea what is going to happen next and it can be totally different.
We had that already in the past with the triptych ‘Songs From The North’…
You can listen so long that you never can be quite sure or expect what can happen like before. In the previous album, there was like schlager music almost in some song. Do you know what schlager music is? It is hard to explain, but it is kind of almost from the schlager music to the funeral doom if you take the whole of our music. We are not afraid to write what comes out naturally, so I am very happy about that. I know that a lot of people wants to do us the first album again and again, but it would not be honest music and I can only write honest music. It is maybe a curse and a blessing at the same time, but…
It is the right thing to do. If you don’t feel good about yourself, you push too hard to do something you planned. Music should remain something about feelings, not with planning.
You have to be honest with the music, that’s for sure otherwise I think that not many artists or bands actually are. I think they think more what the people want to hear. It might be better from financial point of view. It might be easy if you want to make a quick career and sell merchandise and everything, but then again, I really want to leave it behind as honest and as heartfull music as I can. That is the only thing that I basically do.
Sometimes I had a feeling that there are guests on the album. I was wondering in ‘November Dust’ you can hear such a low voice. Is that Mikko singing?
Yes, Mikko has been singing that low voice before a very long time. There are other songs from the past in which he goes very low. With ‘November Dust’, that is basically like a huge tribute to Type O’Negative. Even the name of the song. It is ‘October Rust’ and ‘November Dust’. The whole song is very Type O’Negative like. They were always such a big influence for us and for me. It is a super Type O’Negative song, that’s for sure. If you remember the song ‘April 14th’ on the ‘Emerald Forest’ album, that was a song about Peter Steele when he died. So we had lots of Type O’Negative before in the music also. It was in 2010 he died and in 2012 we had the ‘Emerald Forest’ album, of course I wrote the song before 2012, so these are tributes to Type O’Negative and Peter Steele. ‘April 14th’ and this is the second tribute, even though it is not about Peter Steele or Type O’Negative in that way, but the whole music and the whole song is totally Type O’Negative and it is on purpose
We also have the long title track ‘Shining’. It is amazing… Is there something you can say about it?
Like I always say, I don’t want to explain a lot about that, about the meaning of the songs. Everybody has their own meaning for that song and the music and I think that is quite a beautiful thing, when bands or artists don’t like to explain what the song is about, but usually you have your own understanding. It comes from your own life and then it gives you a much deeper meaning to it. Listen to the music and listen to the lyrics and then make up your own mind how it resonates with your own life, because this life is not easy for anyone. So I really don’t like to explain that much about like what the songs are about. I think the song ‘Shining’ and the whole album is kind of like a lot about this trying to forgive a little bit to yourself. Kind of understanding yourself why you have done things and why do you feel how you feel and then also try to understand other people; how they feel and what they have been through and why things turn out as they turn out. Very hard and dark subjects that I deal with this new album, but there is a little bit more kind of understanding and acceptance instead of just wallow in the darkness or totally bait in the sadness. It is a little bit more about understanding things this new album and why things happen how they happened. In the ‘Shining’ song I sing ‘I understand’ in the lyrics.
Sometimes in life you have to brace yourself and make decisions…
A lot also about this album, sounding and being as it is, is that not only myself that I started to be. I have been quite worried about myself for a long time, about my own inside and everything – and I still have a lot to solve, but in a way I try not to track other people with me that much anymore, in a way that started to be very destructive if you know what I mean. If I go deeper now at this point of my life, if I go deeper into this darkness, it is going to be turning into a destructive thing and that is the worst thing that I can think of, that I will pull somebody in with me, into this black ocean, this darkness. It is absolutely the opposite from what I want with the music. I always wanted it to be like a healing, healing music and not destructive music. After ‘Moonflowers’ it started to be – even though it is a very beautiful album – it started to be in those lines, after so many other albums about that, Trees and ‘Songs From The North’ and ‘When A Shadow Is Forced Into The Light’ and everything. I mean, there’s a lot of light and love in that music, but it started to turn into more of this destroying side from myself personally, but that is why I am very happy that this new album shines, a different kind of a power, not this destructing power.
For the production and the mix you went to Dan Lancaster and that might be a quite exceptional combination with Swallow The Sun. What about this experience?
It was very, very different, that’s for sure. It was the first time ever we kind of used some big producer in this way. The moment we started to think about using a producer on this album, the first thing I said to our management – who was actually looking for different people and different producers – we were talking about lots of different producers – the main thing for me was that if we are going to work with a producer, this producer has to be someone who has never been doing this kind of music and who has never done any doom metal and who is basically totally out from this scene that the bands always use. Doom and melodic death metal is very much the same, the approach is very safe, they are in a safe zone within themselves and the music and everything. That was exactly what I also did not want with this album, that we were going to do it in a safe way. I really wanted to feel that someone was pulling us out from that dark womb and kinds of slabs us in the face, kicks us in the ass very hard with this new album and that’s exactly what happened with Dan Lancaster. He has never been doing this kind of music, that’s for sure and that was exactly the right person to work with for this album. That was the reason that I wanted this album to feel different, because I felt the music needs that also and that is exactly what happened with this guy.
What did he say about that experience for him?
I have no idea. I am sure he was as surprised as we were about working together. I think that is the beauty of it. He has been doing things like Bring Me The Horizon and Muse. These bands are very far from our music and also basically he is also a pop producer often in many ways. It could not be farther away from our music and that’s the beauty of it. That is what I wanted from this working with him. This would have been quite a different album without him, that’s for sure and that is what I wanted.
In ‘Velvet Chains’ I hear female vocals…
That was actually the female voice from there, it was the producer’s wife. She is a musician too and we were working in his home studio. She is an amazing artist and singer and I was thinking about female vocals in some parts. It worked out as a surprise for her to be on our album. Dan Lancaster – and that is a huge role – is singing a lot on this album too. That was something we talked about before we started working, I wanted him to do a lot of backing vocals, painting the music with his voice and that’s a huge thing you can hear. It has been before when Jaani Peuhu was in the band, he was also doing a lot of backing vocals and harmonies. This guy also, so I wanted even more from him. You hear it in the music, it is full of amazing choral chants and backing vocals. That is his production. When Mikko sings, he has this beautiful low voice and when the producer sings, he is an octave higher and doing harmonies and all kind of stuff. It really fits the music and it paints with pickle colours and I really love that. It almost sounds like Queen, the choruses (chuckles). There are such big vocals in everything. These songs were super melodic, so I wanted to push that side also. Right away when I wrote all the songs, I thought this is very melodic album. I also wanted to find this producer who can sing a lot and go towards the way that the songs need.
Since 2018 Juho Räihä is also with you in the band and I think he is a very skilled addition to the band, because he does a lot of things too…
Yeah Juho is amazing, he is such an amazing person and a friend – which is the most important thing of course – and then after that he is an amazing musician. He also growls and screams on the stage and he is an amazing guitar player. He has also his own studio SoundSpiral Audio, he is a studio engineer and everything, so he has a super big role in the band, how the band even sounds these days. He was part even before that, he was playing when I was not touring and stayed home, then he was playing instead of me, even before that, in the band and around those days, he became an official member of the band. He has been bringing a lot into this band. He also plays in Before The Dawn now. I think sometimes he has been playing with Wolfheart, I am not sure.
You are playing the keyboards a lot more since 2018…
I have been doing the keyboards for a very long time. I did the keyboards a lot, even on the demos when Aleksi (Munter) was in the band, because I always write the demos until they are kind of ready and when I send them to the guys, they have the keys already. Of course Aleksi then did his own stuff and changed things and everything, but it is nothing new for me. After Aleksi quit the band, I brought in all keyboards and of course when Jaani Peuhu was in the band, he added a lot because he was the keyboard player and a singer. I have been doing it a long time, it is not a new thing.
What can you say about the video clips?
The first one for ‘Innocence Was Long Forgotten’ is an amazing video. Vesa Ranta has been doing it. A lot of people did not understand the whole thing. There is this amazing dancer, the guy who is dancing in the video, he is from the Finnish National Ballet dancer and he is very famous in Germany. I think he has been in some German ballets. On the video there is this other guy, who is like a prisoner and talking with the horse. I wrote the whole song almost like an Adam and Eve story, chased away from the paradise. Of course, I wrote it from that point of view, between a man and a woman, like Adam and Eve, but in the video this famous Finnish dancer is a gay and when I started to think about this video and how to make it, I saw he was in a Finnish news post. On social media he posted a picture of himself holding hands with his boyfriend and he started to get death threads and everything, such as ‘all these gay guys should be killed’ and I was like ‘what the fuck?’ For me – being not a gay but a straight guy myself – it even sounded horrible and I wonder how can it still be like this? After that I thought ‘wait a minute’… when we were doing the ballet ‘Plague Of Butterflies’ shows in Finland a while ago – I don’t know if you have heard about that –
Aren’t you going to do it on the 70,000 tons of metal cruise as well?
Yes, but before, at the beginning of this year, in Helsinki we did three shows and he, the dancer, was dancing on another thing that was before us, so that is how I met this guy – and then after that I saw that news about what happened to him. I was thinking: ‘maybe we should not do this video about Adam and Eve, chased away from the paradise as sinners, but it would be brave to get this guy dancing in the video and then turn it into as a Adam and Adam issue.’ So that is what the whole video is about, how their community, the gays and the lesbians, still get these death threads and a lot of people are looking at it as a sin.’ I talked to the others and said: maybe we should do it from that point of view. The song is not, but the video is from that point of view.’ So that is what the video is about. These guys with white hoodies are chased away from the paradise and then the dancer is high upon these rocks, he is like a prisoner of what the people are thinking about them. He is released from that rope at the end and then they both meet and find their way together again. It is a quite powerful video in that way. It is quite hard to understand maybe from that video, what’s the meaning behind the actual video, but that’s what it is. It is a love story, but it is not Adam and Eve, but Adam and Adam. There you see that we are not afraid to do what feels right. There were reactions like ‘what is this gay shit? Are they homos now?’ but you can only laugh about this sort of people. So yes, that was the first video and now soon, there is going to be a second one, for the song ‘What I Have Become’. That was of course a lyric video and then pretty soon there is going to be the third one, a real video that will come out. I cannot say anything about it before it comes out. I want to keep it as surprise. It is for the ‘MelancHoly’ song. That is going to be the third one and then, on the date when the album comes out, there is going to be a fourth single coming out. That can be a lyric video again or a live video. So there are four singles coming out before the album comes out.
To occlude the plans for the future and tour plans…
We are starting to tour in December in Finland. We start with a Finnish tour and then it is a North American tour in February/March and then in April/May we are going to tour in Europe. We are starting in Antwerp…
